Moe Speed and Z-rollers

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Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby bowland » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:41 am

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This is my Z-Roller and Moe Speed collection. The set on the left are the Millennium trucks made of billet. They were sent off and got the ball joint pivots. They originally had solid pivots. They have live axles riding on needle bearings. Same bushings as the Z-Rollers. The Z-Roller hanger with all the extra stuff on it was the "Moe Traction" splitter set-up. It allowed you to run four wheels on one truck. I always had problems bending the grade 8 bolts. The machined tube in the middle replaced the stock roller. It had two little axles held in there by set screws for easy changes. In the middle I have a pouch with extra bolts and axles it came with. On the bottom left is a spare axle and bearing punch for the Z-Rollers. It was a must to have that punch for getting those z-speed bearings (608-abec3) out of the hangers. Moe used the same axles. Then upper right are my z-rollers trucks. The first truck's cone bushing is not the originally so if anyone has one they would like to part with please let me know!!!! Also if anyone has some z-roller and Moe Speed decals let me know. Any info on Z-Roller and Moe would be great. One thing I wanted to know was the name of the bushings.

I know a lot of people have these but I can honestly say not very many people in the Southern IL area!!!
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby stevefernando » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:04 pm

e used the bushings from the Z-Roller trucks we had laying around. I have a sticker or two, I gave away all the Z-Roller stuff but I still have billet baseplates for the Z hanger. I would be interested in buying your Moelliniums if they are for sale or trade. I still talk to Moe, he's doing great.
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby Furlong » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Cool, posting up all your old school memorabilia. I am also lucky that I have a set of Z-Rollers, a part of street luge history. Mine are still mounted on the Dregs luge, another piece of history that I have. The Z-Rollers were really the only suitable trucks for the Dregs, as I have run Randal luge trucks on the Dregs and not able to negotiate the corners as well as I could with Z-Rollers. I believe this is due to the 50+ inch wheelbase on the Dregs, and the twitchiness / responsiveness of the Z's worked out better. Perhaps the Dregs luge was designed around the Z's, since the Randals weren't available back then?

As for Moe trucks, when you say they're made of billet, do you mean they're simply CNC'ed trucks? It'd be cool if someone could make Z-Rollers and Moelennium trucks using CNC, to make these historical trucks available to us street lugers again....
"Keep the faith. Ride hard."
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby stevefernando » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:38 pm

Hi Furlong, the Moellinium trucks are billet trucks, but built old school. Moe was a machinist for the skunkwerks prior to becoming a fireman. He has a couple machines in his Burbank garage that he used to carve out the Moelliniums. He and I measured the Z-Roller kingpin angle for the responsiveness, the length of the Randal Comp-II for stability and Moe thru in a wrinkle taken from Darren Lott prior to it coming out in his book. The result in my opinion is the best truck for streetluge. I've spoken to several machine shops about CNC copies of the Moellinium(Moe is too busy) but the cost is very prohibitive due to the increased cost of 6061-T6 billet blocks. But I love mine and I'm trying to get a couple more so stay tuned, I just might bust a move with the Moellinium Streetluge Truck.
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby Furlong » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:43 am

Hi Steve. Thanks for that info! Just a few questions for you.

By billet, do you mean CNC? I just call any precision truck (common lingo among today's standup crowd) as a CNC truck since they're CNC'ed from a piece of aluminum. However, as you pointed out, the billet is 6061-T6, and upon googling this particular phrase, reveals that the billet is not pure aluminum (which is soft), but an alloy of aluminum, magnesium, and silicon, and that it has been tempered / heat treated / stress relieved / work hardened / what have you. Basically it's stronger stuff, and more expensive. What's the cost of billet these days?

Another question. You said "but built old school". By old school, do you mean the truck geometry? I noticed one thing in common about the Z-Rollers and the Moellinium trucks, is that they are not reverse kingpin like a Randal, but more like an Independent 215. Basically what today's standup crowd refer to as "conventional geometry".

With that being said, is there reason to believe that the conventional geometry (Indys, Z's, and Moe's) is more responsive than reverse kingpin geometry (Randals)? By responsiveness, are we simply talking about quick or slow turning when you lean?

I know a few guys who praise conventional geometry trucks.

Nick Duffield rode Indy 215's for a long time. He rides Randals now, but he still praises the Indy 215 and was talking about using them again, albeit on his RB pegless luge. I didn't manage to take a look at his setup in Newtons 2009 though.

Bob Pereyra told me he prefers the Z's because they're more responsive than Randals (despite the 60 degree Randal luge truck being responsive enough in my opinion). He also says they are a better starting platform for equipment setup (not sure what that's supposed to mean). He also advised to angle the back truck (not sure why) but didn't mention angling the front.

In Sweden 2005, Rian James was riding his Randals, and despite qualifying #1, he was complaining that the Randals were not responsive enough and wished they were like a Z-Roller. He obviously didn't have his Z's at the time.
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby ChrisMcB » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:48 am

Yes the ZRollers are extremely more responsive than Randals. Randals are known to be less responsive. Although I wouldn't equate Indies with ZRollers. And despite the fact that most beginners in UK start on ZRollers, I personally wouldn't put a beginner on a ZRoller. It is just too responsive (IMHO)
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby will » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:09 am

I don't like Z-rollers; old design, differcult to change wheels, twitchy and too narrow.

Mixed in with some labeada wheels is a very fun combienation!!

see pic:

Image
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby ChrisMcB » Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:35 pm

Yeah, I've discovered that ZRollers work much better when ALL FOUR WHEELS are actually ON the ground.
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Re: Furlong's questions... Moe Speed

Postby stevefernando » Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:49 pm

Hi Furlong, Aluminum can be cast or forged .. when making billet the process aligns the crytaline structure of the aluminum then the tempering process can greatly strengthen the material. This tempering is the "T" at the end of the designation.. 6061 is the blend characteristics and T6 is the level of tempering. I built luges using T4 and it's too soft. T6 is minimum for a healthy luge to withstand repeated abuse ie crashing! 6061-T6 generally referred to as "aircraft grade".. and it's the best to machine into parts like streetluge trucks. Now CNC means "computer navigated controls" which means you program your computer to make the necessary changes in the tools angle and depth on your lathe or mil, very quick and precise. By "old school" I meant that Moe had to measure how he wanted the tool to cut and then set it himself. Every move of the piece had to be recalculated and each cut had to be precisely set by Moe. Very time consumming and delicate. One wrong setting and you could break your $100,000 machine!
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby stevefernando » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:46 pm

Responsiveness... yes the Moellinium is more responsive(quicker turning) than the Randal Comp-II but the Randal is more stable. The kingpin angle on the Z-Roller and the Moellinium is high 70's.. plus it's a leading axle design which will always be more responsive than a trailing axle design. Jarret Ewanek worked with a couple suspension companies in his day and he advised the Z-Roller type design if responsiveness was the goal. He was also the man who proved to us the folly in pursueing the Moe Splitter. That being said, the Randal-Comp-II can be ridden very hard and it will remain stable and is less prone to bump steer which are very fine qualities in a speed environment. I would put everyone on Randal's especially the newbies... Comp-II's are stable, smooth, fast, and very predictable. Can't beat that... but I'm always trying...
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby grits » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:50 am

Nice Collection Bowland!

Hey Steve,
You know you've got sets of those moe trucks sold in aus if you start making them.

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This is something we've just started playing with in townsville.
These are Clayski's Indy's bored out to 1/2 inch with 200mm chrome-moly axels inserted.

We ran them this morning, and they turn really nice.
It's on a Local built luge, similar to the trs's that steve built for clay, ado and i. But with a shallower drop in the pan.
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Bring on the old school trucks with new cnc tech!
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Re: Moe Speed and Z-rollers

Postby DefectiveProduct » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:16 pm

Bump. Sorry to sidetrack the topic.

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Mind sharing what size holes you drilled and what spacing you used? I'm a weekend warrior and really dig this idea for the ability to move things around.
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