Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

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Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:59 pm

Hey guys,
A good friend and I started a CNC skateboard truck company called Buzzed Precision trucks, a little while back and I have been toying with ideas for luge trucks for quite some time. Since most of you have more experience in luging than we do, I would love to have this project start and end right here with concepts, ideas, and anything else you may have to offer, and at the end of the day I will present a community driven truck to you guys for a price that you will not believe.

You can check out what we have going on already at www.buzzedtrucks.com.

I am thinking we will offer trucks that are the same geometry as the ones currently offered in terms of distance from the pivot to the kingpin hole, etc. so they will all be compatible with our other baseplates.

Austin and I will probably end up doing one front angle and one rear angle to start, and will also offer the options of pairing our hangers with the current angles (30/40/47).

I am thinking of offering 55* and 20*, we will make them so that the axles will end up sitting at the same position for both. We will offer a hanger that is compatible with our current axles, and make the hanger wider and much beefier to better suit our needs as lugers.

Lastly, we though about possibly offering baseplates that are connected, e.g. one part that is two baseplates milled out of one block of billet aluminum. You wouldn't be able to wedge, but if we decided on a good medium for pivot angle, I think it might be a pretty cool concept.

Everything will be Randal compatible, so you will be able to take advantage of using these parts as well, different plates with Randal luge hangers, or whatever else you prefer.

Please, please, enlighten us with any ideas you guys may have, we are all ears.

Pivot angles?
Hanger widths?
Double baseplates? no?

Thanks so much,
Jamie Reis
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby sidecar nic » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:55 pm

my ideal truck for me would be an indy style of truck with a floating axle about 200-205mm wide
(go ahead and crucify me naysayers.....)

I think 20* is too low for the rear.

Since randal is re-tooling all of their luge trucks and taking their sweet time about it, it's good to see another option on the horizon. Thanks
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:25 pm

Image

Image

Image

Comments, questions, or concerns?

We based this design around a simple concept that has been toyed with by many. A WHOLE bunch of mathematics and physics went into figuring out these angles to allow a much more natural feel out of a double truck. This setup will accommodate wheels up to 83mm, and we will also offer the option of a 90mm wheel spacing or that option if you prefer front trucks that are a bit further spaced.

I'm open to suggestions. Thanks!
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby grits » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:04 pm

The whole idea of a double base plate kind of doesn't make sense to me.
I like to be able to move my trucks around, and play with the angles of each truck.

I like the idea of a 45, and 55 degree baseplate that would accommodate a randal comp2 205 hanger. Currently randal (when they were selling the 205) were selling them with r2 baseplates. The R2 baseplates are weaker, and to be honest it would be nice to see a cnc'd baseplate on the market for all those out there who are currently stuck with the weaker r2 baseplate.

I'd like to see an 180mm to 200mm indy/zroller/mollenium style luge truck on the market with a floating axel as well. But maybe there isn't enough demand for them.

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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby ChrisMcB » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:27 pm

CNC baseplates? For randals? Try cindrich. http://cindrichboards.com/Photos.html#13

CNC Floating Axles? Try Speed Mechs: http://speedmechanics.net/id68.html Of course I don't quite understand why someone wants floating axles.

I also don't quite understand the double baseplate setup. Will it allow me to get the trucks closer together?
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:46 am

It will not necessarily allow you to get your trucks closer together. We will design two different baseplates one specifically to suite 76-83mm wheels, and another plate that allows you to run up to 90mm wheels.

While this will lack in adjustability, I have come to realize a few things...

1. I have spoken with a bunch of luge riders, many of which agree... everyone is shooting for an optimum level of performance from their truck that they are comfortable with. When/if they are able to achieve it, they pretty much throw away the truck wrench and just ride the setup.

2. This design focuses on a general concept that has been toyed around with for years. The concept of having a slightly higher degree front truck compared to the middle truck for proper turning purposes. We have done a BUNCH of mathematics to figure out precisely the perfect angles to make a natural turning mechanism.

*This will literally be the first absolutely precise mechanism offered where your trucks will not be fighting eachother through a turn, but following the same path through a turn.

While you will not be able to wedge the baseplates, we feel that the combination that we have chosen will satisfy the widest range of riders possible. The middle truck will be a 55* Randal compatible geometry, and the front truck will be ~58.93* (basically 59*).

For double truck designs, you will get an insane amount of turn from moderate level pivot angles, and the stability will be through the roof. Having two baseplates at different angles will mean that they will oscillate at different frequencies, basically eliminating front truck speed wobbles, and instantly correcting any twitches.

We will basically be delivering a luge truck that performs well enough where you will put it on your board, and never have to think about it. This will be tested until we feel that it is perfect.

We want everyone to feel 1000% comfortable on this truck because in this sport.

Comfort = speed.
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby ChrisMcB » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:32 pm

JamieReis wrote:2. This design focuses on a general concept that has been toyed around with for years. The concept of having a slightly higher degree front truck compared to the middle truck for proper turning purposes. We have done a BUNCH of mathematics to figure out precisely the perfect angles to make a natural turning mechanism.

Of course your math takes into account the distance between the front trucks and the rear trucks. Which means the angle (you are building in) differs based on the wheelbase.

JamieReis wrote:We will basically be delivering a luge truck that performs well enough where you will put it on your board, and never have to think about it. This will be tested until we feel that it is perfect.


I love to see that people are trying to innovate for luge. But I wonder, you are trading flexibility, for... well I don't know what you actually gain. Perhaps you only need 4 bolts instead of 8?
The flexibility you lose, is the ability to vary the distance between wheels (for example I recently had to move my front truck to accomodate 83mm Centrax) and the ability to wedge the truck(s).
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby FrankW » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:35 pm

I would like to try a higher degree front baseplate, maybe the double, somewhere around the high 60s, with a 0 degree rear baseplate. I understand that this might be outside the scope of your targeted range and targeted consumer, but I'm just putting that out there.

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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:27 pm

Chris...
To answer your questions, what you would gain is:

*****There is no guessing. The math is figured out, the trucks are designed to turn per eachother, not the specific mechanism in the rear of the board. They will contribute to the system the same way regardless of the angle of the rear truck. If you take the middle truck @ 55*, and figure out the path of turn per 1* of lean; figure the distance between axles; and adjust the angle of the front truck to follow that path, the ratio will remain the same with regard to this individual system. The two trucks, regardless of whether they are two fronts, or two rears, are only going to need adjustment to turn relative to eachother(front/front or rear/rear) because throughout the turn, the systems act separately, but to achieve the same task (e.g. separate systems working together.)

**If you wedge trucks, you are completely counteracting the system that we worked to achieve. You will not be retaining this system that works together, but revert to a conventional truck system.

**With this system, you will feel a more natural feeling/turning/leaning truck than you have ever have in the past. More than likely you haven't quite experienced a situation where you were riding trucks that were working together as opposed to fighting eachother. So you will feel that you are able to turn more than just the numbers that are associated with the pivot ax(e)s, (i.e. what you are used to associating with on double truck systems.)

We will make a baseplate that suits 83mm wheels as well as 90mm wheels.

90mm will be the production limit, but for certain instances, we might accept custom orders for riders that tend to ride wheels that are even bigger than 90mm.
Lets be honest, you don't have unlimited options for mounting your trucks in regard to distances from one another, unless you are willing to redrill your rig to move your trucks a few mm closer together/further apart.

I know personally, I just put the trucks as close together as the current mounting holes allow, this might mean that one board allows 83mm wheels to be closer than 76mm wheels according to the drilling pattern or something else. The distance difference between wheels when switching from 76mm to 83mm is exactly 6mm.

Is this an issue, or would most people not bother moving their trucks (if even possible) to have the axles 6mm closer? If your drilling pattern is .25" increments, it might not even be possible.

We could always do three different options, 76mm, 83mm, and 90mm, and make them MTO.

This is why I want to get the input from the community. We have nothing to prove to anyone, we just want to innovate and make a product that actually works.

From talking to a bunch of luge folks, I do understand that it is a more reserved crowd that is more likely to stick to the basic Randal truck that has worked for so long, but I am the type of person that always feels that SOMETHING could be done to improve performance, and why not try it?
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby Furlong » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:22 pm

You should not have to move your trucks when changing wheel sizes. Otherwise, you'd have to change the position of one of the two front trucks everytime you switch from 83-85mm wheels to 75-76mm wheels, and in my opinion that is unnecessarily tedious.

When you bring the two front trucks as close as possible, without any wheels mounted, the baseplates are almost touching each other. You're also limited by the truck mounting hole positions. In this configuration, the maximum wheel size you can run on both front trucks is 83-85mm, where there is a small gap between the wheels. When you change to smaller wheels, i.e. 75-76mm, the gap becomes larger, and it is not possible to make this gap smaller because the trucks are already positioned as close as possible to each other.

The wheel size does not affect the math, because the math only takes into account the distance between the 2 front axles.
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby ChrisMcB » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:32 pm

JamieReis wrote:Chris...
To answer your questions, what you would gain is:


There should be no guessing. The formula is well known. And again the correct angle depends on the wheelbase. Although 4 degrees difference is probably close enough for most people.

But what I meant was, what is the advantage of a single piece of metal the can hold two hangars? As opposed to two separate baseplates that you could wedge yourself?

JamieReis wrote:**If you wedge trucks, you are completely counteracting the system that we worked to achieve. You will not be retaining this system that works together, but revert to a conventional truck system.

With two individual plates I can choose pretty much whatever angle I want. I might have to do something a bit wonky to "properly" angle the second truck, but if I want a 45/50 angle I could do that, and if I want a 60/65 I can do that. With your system I have one option (or however many dual plates I buy)

JamieReis wrote:This is why I want to get the input from the community. We have nothing to prove to anyone, we just want to innovate and make a product that actually works.

I applaud you for trying to innovate, and I am trying to play devil's advocate.

One thing I am curious about, what drill pattern will you use? There really isn't a standard drill pattern for double trucks, and I would guess many people (with homemade boards) might have to redrill their boards to accommodate this truck. Personally I can't do that, I've already got too many drill holes.
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby FrankW » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:34 am

The advantage I could see would be to have a 76mm specific double baseplate which could position the two hangars closer together than two single plates.

I also agree that wheelbase will play a factor in the necessary angle of the inside truck(s). But the difference caused by a couple inches difference in wheelbase may be negligible.

I like the development so far and am looking forward to seeing the end result. I would still prefer a higher front angle.
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:44 pm

Chris, to address your questions:

*There is no guessing, the math is well know. This is correct, the math is--to a certain extent, known to the community, but not many people have the ability to figure out how, precisely, to mount the plates so that they are wedged the correct amount of degrees. Come on...

People know there is some concept to use, but there are people that will put like a single washer wedging the front truck MAYBE a half a degree, or use a 5* riser. If your front truck is oversteering, you are going to lose traction. I personally would rather have trucks fighting eachother to turn and run looser trucks or softer bushings, than to have a truck system that inherently loses traction.

*Also there is no guessing as to whether your baseplates are 100% in line with one another. I know that this is a pretty huge factor in the performance of a luge, and is something that is definitely to be taken into consideration on a solid setup. No matter what you have going on, there is going to be some little bit of play between your baseplate and hardware. Is there some trick that I am unaware of that will keep your trucks precisely in line with eachother?

As far as mounting, we will deliver a truck that has the same spacing as Rogers luge most likely. And that is for the simple fact that most people with home built rigs are much more likely to redrill than a production luge. Aside from that it offers many options for mounting using the holes you already have drilled. Like previously mentioned, you may be able to use just 4 hardware, or you may choose to use 8, or you may choose to use even more if you like...

So I guess 5/16"
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby ArtLuger » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:16 pm

at least with these you arent going to have to correctly center two seperate trucks. Anyone have a randal 170mm 35degree comp 1 lying around? cause i need a 2nd one and cant find any now. Think they stopped making them?
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Re: Buzzed Precision Street Luge Trucks

Postby JamieReis » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:22 pm

Stage two of design, refine geometry, measurements and weight reduction. This design will allow up to 90mm wheels.

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